MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Let's turn now to a part of the electorate that's gotten a lot of attention this election year - Latinos. They've increased as a share of the electorate in each of the last seven presidential elections. And while some people who identify as Latino have a long association with the GOP, Latinos overall have tended to vote Democratic, but they have become less reliably Democratic. So how has Donald Trump been able to gain ground? Evelyn Perez-Verdia is a cultural strategist and the founder of We Are Mas. That's an agency that aims to fight disinformation among Spanish speakers. Good morning.
EVELYN PEREZ-VERDIA: Good morning. Thank you for the invitation.
MARTIN: So what caught your eye in these results?
PEREZ-VERDIA: Well, Michel, we have to look that former President Trump is up 13 points among Latinos compared to his performance in 2020. We saw that the top issue for Hispanics was actually the economy, also immigration. But we also saw an increase in Latino men that backed Trump. And the reason why is that most said that they were worse off financially compared to four years ago, which goes with 8 in 10 voters who backed Trump in this election.
MARTIN: So talk a little bit, if you would, about that gender gap. Do you think that that's real? I mean, we've heard in the polling leading up to the election that Latino men in particular - that Trump was making inroads with Latino men in particular. But do you think that that evened out at the end, or do you think that that gender gap still persisted from what we know now?
PEREZ-VERDIA: You know, I believe it still persisted, but I believe that there are other factors that helped Trump win this election - former President Trump win this election. I think the fact that a majority - a strong majority of U.S. voters say that American democracy is under threat, which meant that they saw both candidates as extremes somehow. And I think that's very important to talk about because it's something that I have been researching the past five years. And I think it's important to talk about that words matter, and the words that candidates and parties use and organizations use matter, too.
MARTIN: Well, say more about that. When you say extreme, what does that mean? What do you mean by that?
PEREZ-VERDIA: Well...
MARTIN: What does your research suggest to you that that means?
PEREZ-VERDIA: Well, let me give a very good example that in the past five years, you know, when we've done research recently, a Harvard study showed that the word Latinx - when they presented it to Latino voters - when they used the word Latino or they used the word Latinx, Hispanics and Latinos would reject the candidates that would use the word Latinx.
We have seen many - and I've been researching this - many, from local to national Latino organizations - since 2020, Pew Research Center has informed them that only 3% - and it's gone lower to 2% - of Hispanics and Latinos identify with the term Latinx. And still, I believe that, you know, these are missed opportunities because it wasn't addressed. They continued using it. And I think that when we look at this, we really have to make a deep reflection that sometimes they have to understand and operatives have to understand that they don't know us more than we know ourselves.
MARTIN: That sounds to me like you're - it sounds to me, if I can sort of use this term sort of broadly, kind of cultural issues were...
PEREZ-VERDIA: Yes.
MARTIN: ...At least as resonant as the economic ones, and that when people sort of signaled that they weren't necessarily in alignment with people's values, if we can put it that way, that that was at least as resonant as the economic questions. Does that sound right to you?
PEREZ-VERDIA: That is correct. And if you look at it - and I think people need to study a little bit more, I think, Paola Ramos' book, "Defector (ph)," Mike Madrid's book, "The Latino Century." All of this explains a little bit in terms of what is happening, but I think it's really also the terms that in Latin America means something completely different than here in the United States. Like the word progresiva - progressive - which was used by the Democrats for so long. It's highly connected to a word that Fidel Castro used, Hugo Chavez used, Maduro and other leftist individuals in Latin America. So we have to look beyond just the U.S. Latino voter and understand that there are different...
MARTIN: OK.
PEREZ-VERDIA: ...Hispanic communities.
MARTIN: Steve wants to jump in here.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm fascinated by this use of language and the way that it affects people because we think about that all the time here on the radio. Progresiva, that's one that I hadn't thought about before. The other one, though, Latinx, we had thought about before. It's not commonly used on the radio here, for example. You're saying that was held against Harris in some way. Do you know that she used it? 'Cause I don't remember Harris particularly saying it.
PEREZ-VERDIA: Well, I don't - Harris didn't say it. But when you have the organizations - the top Latino organizations for the past five years using it - the local organizations, the most funded, the ones that are receiving millions of dollars to counter this information using Latinx, there's a disconnect. So what we're saying is...
INSKEEP: And people stop listening to the representatives in the community is what you're saying.
PEREZ-VERDIA: Correct. And then if you're using words like progresiva that are connected to socialista and socialism, then you say, well, if it sounds like a duck and it looks like a duck, it must be a duck, which is not the case.
MARTIN: Evelyn...
PEREZ-VERDIA: Kamala Harris is not a socialist, but that's what they feel.
MARTIN: Evelyn, would you stand by? I'm going to bring in NPR's Franco Ordo帽ez because he's been following...
PEREZ-VERDIA: Sure.
MARTIN: ...The Trump campaign, and he's been reporting on this extensively. Franco, what do you think?
FRANCO ORDO脩EZ, BYLINE: Well, I mean, I agree with Evelyn in many ways about concerns about the use of the word Latinx. For example, when I talk - go out and talk to people about that, that's certainly a concern. I mean, there is still a lot to learn about some of these exit polls that are coming out. But, you know, the numbers are pretty startling. I mean, Latino men - Trump winning by more than 10 percentage points. We say a lot on the radio that Latinos are not a monolith. So much depends on, you know, where they migrated from, when they migrated, what kind of income level, what kind of education background they have.
Another big factor is what generation American they are. You know, Trump's team, his campaign told me, you know, that their data showed that many of the Latino voters that they were going after - the working-class Latino voters - were second- and third-generation voters, which they felt would vote - more likely vote like every other American in the country. So there's so much, you know, that goes into this, and I think that's something that they tapped into. But particularly, I do think the economy was a massive number. And Latinos had high percentage, and particularly the second and third generations had a big impact in states like Nevada and Arizona, and other - North Carolina, Georgia, for example.
MARTIN: That is obviously - Evelyn, as briefly as you can, generationally, do you think that there's maybe a generation gap among Latino voters that perhaps we need to think about?
PEREZ-VERDIA: Well, you know, I think that they need to understand that the Republican Party and Trump's campaign really focused on diaspora communities.
MARTIN: OK.
PEREZ-VERDIA: And when you talk to a Venezuelan that's a young Venezuelan that lost their democracy, then...
MARTIN: That's a different thing.
PEREZ-VERDIA: ...You know, it goes beyond that.
MARTIN: That is Evelyn Perez-Verdia. She's the founder of We Are Mas. We also heard from NPR's Franco Ordo帽ez. Thank you both.
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