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Fighting for truth: The struggle to overcome pathological lying

Do pathological liars always believe the stories they tell?

What does it take for them to see the patterns behind their lies?

And what does honesty sound like from someone who has spent most of their lives making things up?

Two people talk about what it’s like to learn to tell the truth, and a researcher on deception shares how you can most effectively spot a lie.

Special thanks to Ellen Barry for her New York Times article, , which inspired this episode.

GUESTS: 

  • : Teaches courses in deception and forensic psychology and conducts research primarily on lying and deception at Texas Women’s University. He’s the co-author of , and of the forthcoming book,
  • Chris Massimine: Began compulsively lying in the second grade. After lies on his resume were made public,
  • : Poet, spoken word artist, and author of , has learned to control her compulsive lying, which began in middle school

Jessica Severin de Martinez, Khaleel Rahman, Meg Fitzgerald, Meg Dalton, Carol Chen, Stacey Addo, and Catie Talarski contributed to this show.

Audacious with Chion Wolf is available as a podcast on,,,, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode!

Join the conversation on,, and email.

Khaleel Rahman is a producer for 'Audacious with Chion Wolf.'
Jessica Severin de Martinez is a producer for Audacious with Chion Wolf.
Jessica Severin de Martinez is a producer for Audacious with Chion Wolf.
Meg Dalton is the director of audio storytelling and talk shows for ºÚÁϳԹÏÍø where she oversees the station’s talk shows and podcasts, including the limited series 'In Absentia'.
Catie Talarski is Senior Director of Storytelling and Radio Programming at ºÚÁϳԹÏÍø.
Chion Wolf is the host of Audacious with Chion Wolf on ºÚÁϳԹÏÍø, featuring conversations with people who have uncommon or misunderstood experiences, conditions, or professions.